Does the Drug Czar know the difference between marijuana and alcohol?
Gil Kerlikowske, the man tasked with “protecting” our nation from the “dangers” of marijuana, appears to be supremely uneducated about the substance. In a recent speech [pdf] to – hold on to your chair for the surprise – the California Police Chiefs Association, Kerlikowske defended the continuation of marijuana prohibition forever into the future by talking about the social costs of an entirely different substance – alcohol.
The tax revenue collected from alcohol pales in comparison to the costs associated with it. Federal excise taxes collected on alcohol in 2007 totaled around $9 billion; states collected around $5.5 billion. Taken together, this is less than 10 percent of the over $185 billion in alcohol-related costs from health care, lost productivity, and criminal justice.
Backed with this evidence, Kerlikowske concludes,
[I]t is clear that the social costs of legalizing marijuana would outweigh any possible tax that could be levied.
No, Mr. Kerlikowske, it is not clear. You can’t just cite the costs of alcohol abuse and use them to conclude that marijuana would produce similar costs. What might have helped is if your speech included at least one statistic about the costs of marijuana use. And, no, the costs of “illegal drugs” grouped together (and including enforcement costs, no less) do not count.
But we are nothing if not helpful. We suggest the Drug Czar start educating himself with this Canadian study, which concludes that the health costs to society per alcohol user are more than eight times higher than the costs per marijuana user. After that he can peruse another study, “Alcohol and Violent Crime” (available here), which notes that alcohol-related crime costs more than $16 billion annually in the U.S. He might then try to compare that to the cost of violent crimes attributed to the use of marijuana (as opposed to violent crimes caused by the illegal marijuana market). Good luck finding that.
Not all drugs are created equal, Mr. Kerlikowske. We would expect you, of all people, to know the difference. It’s time for you to get “above the influence” of marijuana propaganda.
67 comments
We should all, copy and paste this into an email, and send it to Obama, asking if this is his administrations’ position on marijuana.
We need this clairified before the 2012 election.
Excellent points, Steve. Well done in deconstructing Mr. Kerlikowske’s BS. I would like to add one more to your list.
Mr. Kerlikowske argues against legalizing marijuana because the revenues from taxation wouldn’t be enought to offset the social costs. You argue convincingly that the social costs would not be as high as he suggests, but by doing so, you give credence to his supposition that by leaving marijuana illegal, there are no existing social costs. And that’s incorrect.
As a society, we don’t have any ability to mitigate the use of banned substances, and therefore we have no choice but to pay for the costs associated with such use. Banning a substance doesn’t make usage go away, nor do the social costs.
Mr. Kerlikowske suggests the debate is a choice between accepting an increase in revenue along with an increase in social costs, or declining the tax revenue (continuing prohibition) as well as declining the associated social costs. But that’s not the debate. The debate — if he wants to have this argument solely on fiscal grounds — is between having to pay for the social costs associated with marijuana and not having any tax revenues to pay for it, OR having to pay for the social costs associated with marijuana use and having at least some offset through increased tax revenue.
Whether the revenues will exceed the social costs is almost irrelevant: regardless, even marginal tax revenues is better to offset the social costs than nothing.
The bottom line is the only thing prohibition can accomplish is robbing the public of its rightful tax revenue stream while giving a profit incentive to black market criminals. It has absolutely no effect on usage or its costs. And prohibitionists who suggest otherwise need to be challenged at every turn on their flawed logic.
Bzas -
You make an excellent point. And we are both leaving out the cost of maintaining marijuana prohibition through law enforcement. The same Canadian study cited above found that the law enforcement cost per marijuana user is $328, compared to the average health cost per user of only $20! Insanity.
America does not need a drug “supreme ruler”. America was not founded on a few of prohibitionists ruling over the majority. Russia had a czar and they went to hell. Now Obama has over 30 hired Czars. What and who do they have supreme rule over? America and it’s people. This war is becoming less favored upon by the state themselves. It seems that the white house does not listen to 80% of Americans. In Nov. we will vote and then they will hear us. Now there is some asshole that thinks instead of going to jail, all cannabis users should be forced into rehab. What, don’t we still live in America, home of the free, oh yea, only if you are the gov’t are you allowed to be free.
Once again we can see how the government will try to twist the truth and put a negative spin on marijuana legalization no matter what, even though their arguments are not based on any facts or research.
@Bzas – great point about offsetting social costs. Legalize and you’ll have some kind of revenue to deal with social costs of marijuana use. Keep prohibition going and the money has to come from somewhere else, social costs are still there.
Free The Weed. Free The People.
I think we’re seeing and hearing Obama’s position on marijuana. He’s speaking loudly and clearly through his drug czar. You know, a ton of the money that was drained from our Social Security fund was used to fight this drug war on pot. Does anyone feel more socially secure? Not me. I’m sure the drug warriors are driving nice, new SUV’s to their beer drinking softball games though.
Ah, the american dream! sigh…
Clarence — I agree with you on your stance regarding the insanity of choosing between jailtime and rehab. Hopefully, legalization will get rid of these ridiculous choices (what percentage of alcohol users are forced by court-order to go into rehab? No more than a fraction of a percent).
But as for the “czars,” that’s just a nickname term for a department head. The drug czar is a shorthand way to refer to the executive director of the national office of drug control policy, or some other BS. There are no Russian czars serving in the US government. Just an old inside-joke nickname that Nixon started back in the 70′s.
I get what your saying Bzas; the cost associated with cannabis usage is a lot more now then if it were legal ( incarceration, task forces, people who cannot get a job because of a felonies, ect) I can’t see things getting worse due to legalization. if anything we would be creating legitimate jobs and could protect children because you would need an ID.
the biggest question is why do we have a drug czar, and why is the drug czar not medically qualified, or even educated about drugs? What evidence does the drug czar have to produce to defend his grossly inflated budget? Is it scientific or rhetoric? I think the answer is obvious and we should all be questioning the rationale behind this goverment scheme.
Bzas makes great points. But there is another assumption that’s unexamined here, and that’s that the rates of use will rise with legalization, and social costs along with them. Kerlikowske assumes they will, and the commentators here assume they won’t. Does anyone really know what would happen to rates of use under full, recreational legalization?
You’re right, Matt Meyer. There is an assumption being made by both sides regarding an increase/decrease in use as a result of legalization. And here’s the best I can offer.
There are indeed studies that have been done to gauge the effect of legalization on usage, and there are basically two kinds of forces that would push for usage increases: accessibility and acceptability.
With accessibility, there’s an assumption that a part of the population would actually be using marijuana if ever gven the chance, but that because of prohibition, they can’t find sellers and so never use. That’s a bit of a simiplication, but it gets at the basic premise. And I don’t believe accessibility will be a major factor in the US, given how ubiquitous marijuana is already. Most teenagers report on anonymous drug use surveys that marjiuana is easier to procure than alcohol specifically because it’s illegal status limits its sellers to people who don’t have to answer to authorities (unlike liquor store clerks).
Acceptability argues that there is a subset of the population that would use marijuana if it became legal, but don’t now even though they have the ability to buy it, because of the stigma associated with it. Prohibition ends, stigmas are eliminated, more people smoke. And I think they may be a valid argument, though I’m skeptical it would have a significant effect on usage.
And as a counter, there’s something called the Amsterdam Phenomenom, which states that legalization will actually reduce the levels of usage because one of the perks with using an illegal substance — particualrly with young people — is its banned status. Marijuana becomes legal, and it’s no longer cool — just a drug of choice for old aging hippies, etc.
I also don’t think this is that strong of a force, but the Netherlands did experience a steady decline in usage rates (after a brief increase) after it decriminalized, so there’s that.
Bzas kinda sounds like Bruce Mirken…but thats just a thought.
Can someone please pull up the file where Mr. Gil, our “czar” was quoted saying that he thought MJ was not harmful at all WHEN HE WAS FIRST PUT INTO POSITION. and then we have this.
WHO THE FUCK IS FUNDING THESE PEOPLE AND THEIR LIES? THEY WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE REVOLUTION.
@JJ – you just miss Bruce
, but Bzas does make some great points, and just to add to what’s been said about increase/decrease in usage. It has been argued many times that with legalization the number of people smoking marijuana will increase dramatically and it has been overturned every time. As Bzas mentioned in his post, there’s no problem with availability even now. We keep reading how marijuana supplie to US has doubled in the last year or so. So anyone who wants to smoke now, can and will smoke. Yes, there’ll be a small % of people who might start smoking because it’ll no longer be a criminal activity and they no longer have to take the risk by obtaining the product froma drug dealer. For the most part more so called “closet” smokers will join the statistics and contribute to the increase in numbers of smokers. Acceptability will play a role as well, more people might choose to try marijuana and more people might end up choosing marijuana over alcohol, but if you ask me, I dont really see a problem there.
Most of us at some point in our lives choose to try one substance or another, and most of us pretty quickly will find the so called “drug of choice”. After my years of trial and error, I came to realize that marijuana is by far the safest substance that allows safe recreational use and maintaining a good social status and lifestyle. So if marijuana is legalized and more people end up making the same choice that I made, it will still lower the social costs, as hopefully there’ll be less people addicted to alcohol and cigarettes which create a huge financial drag on our society.
Wether US government chooses to ignore the numbers from Netherlands or not, the truth is they have the least number of adults and teenagers smoking marijuana among other countries and it is legal there.
Free The Weed. Free The People.
what exactly are the health problems caused by marijuana usage i mean smoke causes lung cancer um so do cigarettes but besides that what is there erosion of the liver or any of the other many health problems then you have drunk drivers ok ok i got it intoxicated people starting problems nope still alchohol.
man they really are getting desperate for something to hold on to. I just can’t wait till they tells us it makes white women sleep with black men again
Kerlikowski is a bootlicker, always has been!
Universal health care in the U.S.A. would be practically paid for by legalizing cannabis and allowing farmers to grow hemp.
Only initially would usage would go up and that’s ONLY because the oppressed will be rejoicing and be far too excited. Can you imagine being able to buy a kilo?
Once legal we’ll have a two year tripping over our feet experience and then everything will level off and those who opposed it will be saying, “this isn’t so bad”.
Not defending the drug czar in any way, shape or form however, it’s their job to lie as they are mandated to tell lies as part of their Congressional authorization.
According to Title VII Office of National Drug Control Policy Reauthorization Act of 1998: H11225:
Responsibilities :
(12) shall ensure that no Federal funds appropriated to the Office of National Drug Control Policy shall be expended for any study or contract relating to the legalization (for a medical use or any other use) of a substance listed in schedule I of section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812) and take such actions as necessary to oppose any attempt to legalize the use of a substance (in any form) that–
1. is listed in schedule I of section 202 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 812); and
2. has not been approved for use for medical purposes by the Food and Drug Administration;
Bzas I know what a czar is, and where the word came from. Ask Obama. That is where we are headed, and fast. That is why Obama thinks we need so many supreme rulers in so many departments. That way we are already used to the idea of being told what to do and what to think. Now back to the idea of relegalizing cannabis the sooner, the better for our nations recovery.
Hey y’all,
Well, it looks like Lance Mackey is MMJ Free for the Iditarod Sled Dog Trail Race and is in position to take a Fourth Win this year. Old Rules were finally upheld stating that drugs would not be allowed, so now they test during the race on the trail.
Go Get E’m LANCE and GOOD LUCK.
It’s all about how much money, the lawer’s and the court’s get.
police also get all the Seized Cars, house’s money! and that happen’s to the with just a few gram’s.
i’ve herd it happening to people for just a few seed’s
they dont what tax’s! this way it goes rite in there hand’s
If we’re going to consider cannabis legalization in the light of its social costs, then yes, let’s have a FULLY accurate basis to compare all the costs of keeping cannabis illegal, as many have pointed out already.
But let’s also consider the social costs of many other legal, but extremely costly social policies. How about using oil and nuclear energy? What about bailing out banks that were supposedly “too big to fail”? How about two rather ill-justified wars and a military with a global presence that is a leftover from the Cold War? What about capitalism itself?
And yes, alcohol has social costs that are far higher than any conceivable similar costs from cannabis. That’s the real dirty secret here. Because the only thing keeping the comparably much lower social costs of cannabis secret from many of the public is the fact that it’s illegal. If you legalize it, many more people would learn the truth — that we’d be all better off as a society if, in the past, we had chosen to establish cannabis as the recreational drug of choice instead of alcohol.
Not that prohibition works, mind you. Just that reality works. Many thought they were electing a reality-based administration after 8 years of near-insanity. Maybe not. Keep on pushing, brothers and sisters.
There is no reason to believe that the use of cannabis will increase in the long term if it is treated similarly to tobacco (in terms of regulation and taxation).
Few would feel the need to buy a kilo of cannabis for the same reasons few buy a kilo of tobacco:
1. They know they will consume more if they buy in bulk
2. People like to limit their consumption
3. Bulk buys have a higher upfront cost
Reference:
How do smokers control their cigarette expenditures?
Victoria M. White; Elizabeth A. Gilpin; Martha M. White; John P. Pierce. Nicotine & Tobacco Research, 1469-994X, Volume 7, Issue 4, 2005, Pages 625 – 635
Who made Gil and Obama the decision makers? We did. Obama lied to us. Ron Paul or Sarah Palin President in 2010! I wish I could take my vote back.
Oh yeah, btw, If marijuana is not legal, neither should alcohol or cigarerttes be legal. So Gil, you try and take away my smoke, I will take away your drink and Obama’s tobacco!!!
Obama didnt make it a Federal law!
that happen about 20 years ago, or so.
and i do think he is fair person!
bush and the state of texass, killed more people with capital punishment, than all state put togetter.
and back in the 1960′s they were putting people away for 20yrs
for one joint!!!!!!!!!!!
its the money thhe gov, gets from busting people.
that pays better than tax’s
Is palin for cannabis?
Not a christian, don’t care if you are as I hold no grudges when a christian supports the end of Prohibition.
A friend shared this article with me while back. You REALLY need to read it if you’re considering voting for a third party candidate. Third party candidates are a scam.
http://www.jonchristianryter.com/2006/061806.html
As far as Palin goes, I think she would back pedal just like Obama has.
What they fear even more than legalization is the impact that a revitalized hemp industry will have on the bottom line of all the industries that hemp will replace.
We are only the tip of the hemp iceberg and stopping us is all the hope they have left of stopping a tidal wave of hemp based products.
I just love this. Gil says there will be health costs huh? Well gil , first off, any health costs of cannabis is already here. You are stating this as if no one is using cannabis. Second , being that people are using cannabis NOW , and it is illegal , therefore we are NOT collecting ANY taxes to cover said cost.
Even if usage increased slightly , collecting taxs would be better than NOT collecting any and not covering your so called costs.
Oh and your alcohol to cannabis comparison holds no water. How bout STFU !
Once a lying pig always a lying pig. He was in hog heaven slopping around with all the other pigs.
Obama is not cool and never was. A cool president would have stood up by now and said enough of this insanity is enough. He is looking like a Bush loser more and more every day. One term and good bye Bush look-alike.
Excellent post, Steve!
President Obama LIED to all of us. There is no change on the federal level whatsoever to believe in.
HOWEVER, we will make legalization happen…and we will do this on the state level, one state at a time.
You better believe it.
Gil Kerlikowske is still a chump. Does the United States really need a Drug Czar?
MPP, you should team up with NORML and other organizations like it and try to raise enough money for a nationally televised debate about Marijuana Reform. Invite the most knowledgeable and eloquent experts on Marijuana as well as some of the biggest opponents of Marijuana Reform, and watch as we TAKE THEM TO SCHOOL. I get so upset when I read articles like this because I know with any brief rebuttal he would get humiliated.
For his argument to be true, he would have to have prove that the increase in social costs due to the increase in marijuana smokers due to legalization (only the increase in new smokers) would cost more than the savings from prosecution/incarceration, state tax revenue, federal tax revenue, and the amount of new jobs being brought into the economy combined.
Holy Smokes. Gil what are you smoking? How are you sleeping at night?
That is pure crap and you know it. Come on. Face the truth. You are becoming a lacky of the state. God Bless.
Rev.sLeezy
Universal Life Church of the Holy Smokes
RAMP
Let’s educate the world about this substance!
We’re doing our part! We have an information center in Orange County for all things Medical Marijuana related.
Please visit us at http://www.medicalmarijuanaorangecounty.net or webmasters, please contact us for a link exchange.
Many thanks for your support in the Medical Marijuana community.
I saw this article. Its very disturbing. This world just gets worse. In the end 90% of the worlds population will be in jail. Go Darth Vader!… not…
This is Obama’s fault. He is still a president. Yes, he may not have made the laws. BUT HE IS STILL THE PRESIDENT. HE LIED. Anyone of you guys that STILL thinks Obama is the way for legalization, maybe you should go ask a person that was recently busted how they feel. First thing Sarah Palin did when taking over Alaska’s governor position, DECRIMINALIZED POT. Sarah Palin or Ron Paul…2012…hell really, 2010. IMPEACH A LIAR.
A couple of clarifications are sorely needed here…
Don’t think that choosing the other of 2 parties is the solution. From what I’ve heard, Sarah Palin is no Friend of the Weed.
And there is no presidential election in 2010.
Geez folks, unless we educate and presents ourselves a little better, we’ll never get things changed. Please keep in mind that the facts and the present political system is very distasteful, irritating, and just plain downright unfair and unjust, but arm yourself with the truth before going out in public and making a case for cannabis. We should make the OTHER side look like fools — which is SO easy to do — rather than making our side look foolish be having a weak grasp of the facts.
Palin didn’t DECRIMINALIZED pot, it was legal too grow back in the 80′s,but then the Federal gov, made it illegal!
before that it was up too the state Gov, for marijuana legalization.
and Pres,Obama has been in office for alittle over a year!
and too the people who think,(Ron Paul or Sarah Palin President ) we would be better off with the shell answer Man!
YEP,
Take them to debate and school them. Make them look like fools on national TV. That’s the perfect answer.
This one is UN-BELIEVABLE!
http://www.cdc.coop/
40, I saw this on cannabis news. It is so sad that cops treated Mike like they did. Why, he spoke of cannabis reform, thats all. Cops are paid by the state to enforce state laws. Not federal laws. As long as cannabis remains illegal by the feds there will be crimes committed by cops against the people. I am not saying cops did this but by not investigating the crimes properly they failed in their duties to protect and to serve.
wow…you guys need to get a sense of humor or something…i said 2010 because I think ol’ Obama needs to be impeached and a new Presidential election ran. As for Palin, I dont like her much either, but I was misinformed that she decriminalized it so SORRY. As for any President, I DONT LIKE GOVERNMENT. that is why I am an oath Keeper and also a member of many organizations that are ready to take back our country. I think the people of the USA that still think Obama is our “leader to the free land” need to take a step back and see that he is turning our country into a socialist, or communist (depending on how you look at it) and the people that are still holding his hand waiting for a drink of water, are going to thirst to death. Politicians are all crooked. And he is the biggest crook around. He lied. Nixon was almost impeached because of it and other issues once he was in office. Obama lied before office…what should we do? Who do we count on? Not Obama….Not Palin…sure as hell not Pelosi….McCain…or anyone else that I can think of. Sad thing is, no matter who we vote in, they will just lie to us again. Only one thing left for the American people to do….and I cant say it on this website or they will delete my comment
Why can’t these people read their own reports,schaffer reprot 1972 http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studies/nc/ncmenu.htm, plus 10 other gov.funded studies http://www.moleculewear.com/420-10-studies.php, they all turned out to bo PRO Cannabis. So the Gov can’t even take their own advise.
Bzas: Great points… Our “Drug Czar” conveniently forgets that social costs are already occuring and are currently not being paid for at all. As a society we have already decided that we have to pay them. Legalizing through a taxed and regulated system would at least provide some resources.
This also assumes that their really ARE social costs to marijuana use. Personally I have a hard time believing this as the statistics once again come from the same government that has lied about the plant for 73 years. They make claims like smoking 5 joints is equal to smoking 140 cigarrettes. Who’s to say that their “statistics” are based on scientific facts or on the same propaganda they have spread for years?
BUT…. another thing to consider is that once legalization is in place, a new method for educating the youth would occur. The negative stigma would be removed and people will feel more comfortable talking about the subject in schools, churches, civic groups, etc. The education would include alternative methods for injesting the plant. People would learn about the health benefits to using edibles instead of smoking. They would learn that the reason there is any negative health consequences associate with smoking marijuana is because you are putting the plant through the process of combustion and that it is the combustion of the plant that creates carcinogens. They would learn that by using a method of vaporization the user is able to “vaporize” the active ingrediants in the plant and not create those carcinogens. A healthier way of injesting the plant would occur and woudl reduce the overall “social costs”. Unfortunately the government wants to bury the science so that they can continue to claim the “dangers” (“social costs”) of the plant.
Fvck them all… karma’s a b!tch!
You all forget that pot has over 1,200 medical uses and 10 times that much in textile uses. Who do you think runs this country??? All the CEO’s that own the companies tht would lose money if the cannibis plant were to be legalized. It’s not about the plant it’s self. The American people have to realize that it’s the super rich that is controlling the corrupt government.
When the people start caring is when we can finally be free.
Marijuana man, are you insinuating that we live under a FASCIST regime? Could big buisness actually be in our Gov’s back pocket? Is OUR country’s welfare taking a back seat to GREED and PROFITS. THE SAD TRUTH IS YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JJ , I think our country has been socialist for some time , its just never been shown as much as it is now. I think as time goes by the next few years , If our ‘leaders’ dont take a stand for the people , the socialist vail will be lifted and the people will see. I dont see any thing being dont that the people want dont , nor do I think we will , just more government justifying its self for its own interests.
Correction:
“…any thing being done* that the people want done*..”
Fingers lol
Well me and CJ can take back our country. It’s the only way this place can be rite again………..
thank you for putting it that way! I have been saying this forever because I see them use that argument all the time!
So if the federal government can have its “czars” to go around and talk down about marijuana then why cant mpp elect some “czars” and then just have them go around and talk about the medical purposes of marijuana and what great effects it has on the economy.
I have lost hope in Obama ending marijuana prohibition my vote next election will be for Ron Paul.
What kills me is that the so called cost of alcohol includes ‘lost productivity’ as a major part of the cost. Now tell me, how can you accurately state that if Ned the Wino had been sober all his life that he would have produced $x, but since he is a wino he’s only produced $y. It also presumes that society has some kind of claim to Ned’s productivity. Since no one has an ownership interest in what others produce, the entire calculation is just BS. For all we know if Ned had spent his life sober he would have been a lay about baby raper.
Obama has let us know where he stands on maijuana by putting this anslinger wanna be in charge. The thing that pisses me off is the way he bragged about smoking weed in college just so he could get the toker vote when he had no intention of changing the marajuna laws. If he had been caught and convicted of his marajuana use. Then right now they wouldn’t even let him in the white house to sweep the floors. He confessed in front of millions of people and theres probably alot of copies of that confession. when change.org starts accepting ideas for the next round i will submit Prosecute Barrack Obama for his admitted drug use
Those that don’t know what to do with their freedom become slaves
He’s a puppet. All czars are ignorant mindless talking heads.
How ’bout everybody that agrees with, “Legalize it.” just meet up in Washington, D.C. with as much smoke as possible and light up at the same time. Think about it, every individual who supports smoking pot, in the Capitol, smoking, all at once. I don’t see how else to get the message across. Be there. July 4, 2010. If it doesn’t work out we’ll try again in 2011.. 2012….2013….? How long will we keep living in insanity? I really have faith that America isn’t stupid. We can still do something with this country for a greater good. Capitalism probably isn’t going to work, I’m throwing that out there. The world is too small for the growing population of our species. Is it really dog-eat-dog still? How much longer will it be until we are forced to live in harmony or we face complete destruction of the Earth? Can’t we just smoke a little pot before we blow this ______ thing?
Revolt. Revolution. Resolve.
I read the articles, then the comments.
I have followed this pattern for a long long time, sometimes something pisses me off enough to make my own comment.
Know whats pissing me off now?
I see the same names posting here over and over and over.
This goes back to the beginning of the website.
Most people here are educated on the subject, others are just stoners that like getting high, know jack shit, and just want it legal.
Myself I am a combination of the two. I like to get high, and Im pretty well educated on the subject, and a alcoholic, now 5 years with out a drink, aside from a small glass of champagne last labor day weekend to toast my brother and his new bride.
Yes MJ is better for you than booze, no doubt about that. Outside of that what the fuck does booze have to do with MJ?
Not shit.
This war will not be won on that argument.
THe answer is we already have so much shit from booze, making MJ legal will only lead to more shit so we are not gonna do it!
Why are we holding on to this shit?
discuss the things that make it better to choose instead of booze, but that can not be a focus. There should be more people posting here, new names, new members. The way to win is to seek out people on the other side and inform them, educate them.
slinging shit back and forth with the prohibitionists will never get shit done.
If everyone here educated themselves adn talked openly about it to anyone they met willing to listen, we could double our numbers in a month, in two months that would double and so on and so on.
sitting bitching on a website does no good unless you back your actions up in the real world as well.
I skip posting alot of times on the comments because for the most part anything I could add to the conversation is already covered by other posters.
I am sick to fucking death of this bullshit.
Media today and the net and tweets and face book and myspace, its all made the information instantly availability to anyone who cares to read it. The truth is right fucking there for anyone to read.
Anyone whos a regular on this site knows that.
Do something with it.
show it to people, run with it, shout it from the fucking rooftops!
I was surprised to see how many people end up IDing themselves on these boards as living in my local area, a small town in utah, and the small towns around me.
Every bit of reform starts with single people speaking out and gathering like minded people to join a group and push the reform all the way through congress.
Most polls suggest the line between us and them is about 50/50.
MPP, NORML, LEAP, SSDP, there are already groups working towards what we want. with google I could gather atleast 150 names of groups in a matter of an hour who work towards this.
If the people that visit the sites and make up the members of these groups went out and recruited people who had an open mind but were not certain about it yet, we could have the numbers to force reform!
Bitching does nothing, actions do, so do something! talk to people, donate money to groups like MPP, teh ground work is already laid, its now up to us to get in the fight instead of just sitting back and bitching.
I will be 39 in april, that means Iv been a criminal for about 24 years. Im sick of it.
THe medical aspects alone should have forced this through long ago, the safeness of it should of given it that extra kick to get people on our side.
We know the other side lies, over and over and over, makes shit up, does studies that are so set against weed that its impossible to win.
Look at the one that said it is worse than smokes by 5 to 1, no matter what subject was studied in that it would of said the same!
science says that a study must be repeatable by peers or its null and void, it also says that you must have controls set in place to keep bias out of the equation.
Not a single study has ever said MJ is dangerous when following those rules.
I started off with a goal, but started ranting and got far from my train of thought.
What I said is still valid though.
is 2010 now, its a matter of time before this goes through, lets work together to make it happen before the politics of 2012 can play a role in it.
It CAN be done, if everyone that gave a shit did more than just read about it and bitch on websites that are already pro cannabis.
In response to Rushing_water’s post about the act forcing officials to be against any substance listed in that section:
Should the focus be shifted to removing that policy, so that we can see which people are hiding behind that policy and possibly not fighting against us?
I now promise to not post emotional rants while high.
in fact, I swear to no longer post anything while I am high, atleast not on this website.
If it were possible, Id delete that whole mess, but since I can not, my apologies will have to suffice.
I still agree with what I said, but I think sobriety could of done wonders for the thoughts conveyed and words used.
all our founding farthers grew it and smoked it …. hemp is a weed thats here to stay … God gave it to us and no one can ever take it away … stop wasting our money on a weed that most people want …
Im all for what grvtykllr posted we need to get off our asses and start doing something about it if we ever want anything to happen.
United Corporations of America.
That is what this is all about. These drug czars are not so much worried about the effects of marijuana on people. They are worried about the effects on their job security. Think about it. How many toxic drugs are legalized with little research put into them? How many people earn paychecks from a new drug? There are many people from the chemist to the advertising agency, all the way to the FDA and more? There is a lot more to be lost than you think. And not one reason is the right reason.
Unfortunately we live in a country where the big losers in legalization are the people actually enforcing and making the laws, as well as the pharmaceutical companies with the clout to lobby and perhaps pay off law makers to keep marijuana illegal. The people in control would join the ranks of the other millions of Americans looking for a job right now. Without a drug war, you don’t need “soldiers”. The DEA and the countless other politicians and corporations profiting from this war on drugs would be downsized, just like any entity or corporation that provides goods or services that decline in demand or are no longer needed.
These agencies are not on our side by protecting us form the “evils” of marijuana. They are protecting their agenda to protect their livelihood. Prohibition has been a huge political mess since the beginning. They have misinformed the entire globe for 70+ years. Other countries prohibit marijuana because the most powerful nation in the country will not provide aid to them unless they have marijuana eradication plan in action. If you legalize it here, the rest of the world will follow. Well maybe not countries with extreme religious laws, but you get my point.
Americans need a proper education on the benefits of marijuana. They do not need to be persuaded to use it; they can make that choice on their own. I read an article that said most Americans did not even know what marijuana was before William Randolph Hearst started demonizing it. I never met the boogie man, but I would be scared shitless if I did! He might be a good guy, but how would I know? I have always been told bad stories about him.
All of us advocates need to take a new approach on informing the millions of non smokers the real values of legalization. I have read countless blogs and articles about marijuana in general. Of course smokers will have a biased perspective on marijuana due to experience. We don’t need the education. The one thing I have noticed in my readings is that it is one advocate speaking to another. Marijuana legalization issues need to be more main stream. Marijuana gets bad press way more than it gets positive press. The American public thrives on negative news.
I guess what I am trying to say is: educate write and inform people that are virtually clueless on the positive and negative effects of marijuana. Especially our “Drug Czar”!
We have the right to choose, some people just need to be reminded of that. God knows the government is trying to keep that a secret.
We need to stop blaming President Obama for leaving us on the pot without wiping our ass. President Obama has put a band aid on the wound by telling federal prosecutors to back off in medical marijuana states, but that band aid can’t fix the problem. The problem is that none of the 14 states that have enacted medical marijuana laws have bothered to tell the DEA to reclassify it. Federal law says marijuana has no accepted medical use in treatment in the United States. How come not one state has bothered to challenge that classification. Congress included a process for amending the classification of controlled substances and not one state has used it. What a shame. If you want to know why we don’t have states’ rights, its because the states are not standing up for their rights. The system can’t work unless everyone plays their part. Let’s get this fixed. I’m suing the state of Iowa over it right now.
Plain Dumb. Anyone who thinks the government knows what it’s doing is what we call a politition. Real Statesmen are gone forever. There is no commom sense left. Just stupid self-interested godless polititions running from the cure. WE are tired and fedup with your stupidity. The ABOMINATION HAS BEGUN. The federal gov.. is god of this abominal nation.
How many gov. studies have been done on marijuana? Every study that has been done always came up with the same conclusion. “Marijuana in its simplest form is one of the safest theroputic substances known to man”. All gov. studies were discared and kept top secret. Are there any real americans left. Our Gov. has been raping every small country on the face of the earth just to keep us in big houses and driving expensive cars. Read .THE APOLOGY OF A ECONOMIC HITMAN. See how the US has screwed the whole world. WE have been cheating the 3rd world countries for 70 years. We are rich and they are poor. WE take their oil and raw materials and give them nothing but hunger and heartachs. WE loan them large sums of money that we know they can’t pay back. We just take over all their corporations and leave them high and dry. I wonder why they they don’t like us? Those pcs are changing things. Everyone knows what is going on now. The US has a hard time coming. The truth is out.
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