Calif. Supreme Court: Alcohol Breath Tests Unreliable
An argument regularly raised by those who want to keep marijuana illegal is that because there is no equivalent of a breathalyzer test for marijuana intoxication, DUI laws would be impossible to enforce. The California Supreme Court just shot a very large hole in that argument.
It’s an odd argument anyway, given that tens of millions of Americans regularly take drugs that can impair driving — pain relievers, antihistamines, etc. — for which there is no simple, roadside test. For most of these drugs, and for marijuana, the old-fashioned field sobriety test works quite well.
Still, people have tended to regard the alcohol breath test as the gold standard. Now, the California Supreme Court has ruled unanimously that defendants can challenge the accuracy of these tests. As the Los Angeles Times reported, “Even though experts say the standard ratio used to derive a blood-alcohol concentration from breath generally approximates or even underestimates the amount of alcohol the driver consumed, they also agree that Breathalyzer results may sometimes overestimate the amount of alcohol in the blood.”
No one — repeat, no one — should ever drive while impaired by anything. But it’s time to put aside the false notion that Breathalyzer tests are infallible, or that there’s no way to enforce laws against driving under the influence of marijuana.
75 comments
With all due respect Bruce I can not agree with the statement that there’s no way to enforce laws against driving under the influence of marijuana. How I say this is being if a person is stupid to drive under the influence of marijuana and a police stops them then the police can hold the person for 24 hours during the officer may at their discression do a marijuana piss test in which if proven positive then can be used to help prosicute and treat the person as if it was a drunk driving. And If there ever becomes a test that they may use that by a simply accurate piss test that may be taken on the spot and with in minnuts show if it is positive vor neg may then solve the issue. Regardless no one under any influence of marijuana, Alcohol or any thing that will judge their ability to operate a machien what so ever and deserves what they have happen to them such as that of DUI as an example.
The problem Jeremy is then you just gave the police the right to restrain you for 24 hours at their whim to see if you smoked marijuana by pee test(which can detect marijuana within around 2-3 weeks). So they can restrain anyone at will if they “believe” the user is on marijuana and test them if they smoked within 2-3 weeks(which if marijuana is legal they most likely would have within the last few weeks). We need an instantaneous test to determine the intoxication of a user with around 99% validity. I believe the field sobriety test is 100% capable of filling these voids.
Also I do agree with you that No one — repeat, no one — should ever drive while impaired by anything. As well as if such an approach as I did mention in post #1 is/was to ever happen to tell if a person is in deed under the influence of marijuana and does have a test on them on the spot or other the results of the test can or should be able to tell when the last time a person smoked / used marijuana due to the levels of impurities in their system. The only way to have such a accurate test is for our govt to do more research and come up with a 12-24 hour test that if a person used marijuana with in under the 24 hour period that the test will note that in the result hence the 24 hour holding period for law officers which they may as it is now keep a person no more than 24 hours with out reasons it is called detainment in which after the 24 hour period has ended and their is no proof that the person had done marijuana with in under that 24 hour period or even had done anything that would result in holding the person more than 24 hour period by law must be set free or at that time must provide evidence other wise to hold them longer. I am no lawyer but do know some of the laws and for a better idea would recomend asking a lawyer the question of if this can be or is allowed. Once again though I do agree with you that No one — repeat, no one — should ever drive while impaired by anything. It puts not just your life and mine in jepordy but others as well and should never be allowed and treated like that of drinking and driving. Yes we may have a few bad apples that may do this as their are some bad apples that do so with alcohol and both of them should be treated the same way.. Their is no need for that what so ever…. If any thing if a person must go some where and the person is indeed under the influence that person does not need to drive and should have a DD WHO IS NOT UNDER THE INFLUENCE….
yeah wtf jeremy sounds kinda like a bad idea
# 2 I agree their is a flaw in the test but a police officer may already hold you for 24 hours as is at least last time i checked that is. As i did say though for this to be effective and accurate there must be an on the spot test that will tell them the last time a person used marijuana and if that test shows a person did so in under the time of holding or as of 1 to 2 hours of holding kind of like the same way they used the breathilizer by how much is in the persons system for after a day the inpurities in the body decreases until the next time use. this is what I was reffering to.
Kind of hard to explain what I just said via online but am trying to explain…
Summ it up as #2 said We need an instantaneous test to determine the intoxication of a user that may be taken on the spot.
?,, I have to take a piss test every week for my P.O. and it just so happends I slipped up and smoke some pot , I took one drag and i have been clean befor then , so what would the probability be that i will so up dirty , thanks for any info anyone might have . P.S. keep up the good work MPP.
The thing is that piss test for cannabis detects the enzyme your liver produces when it breaks the THC down.
So legally those enzymes are NOT illegal.
Now when you sign the papers to get probation or etc. to stay out of prison you are agreeing not to be dirty with said enzymes or any other drugs.
So a road side piss test will NEVER be valid unless one is all ready on probation or a parole still being supervised,
Unless they change the legal writing when you sign to validate your drivers license. This is their problem!
What doesn’t make any sense, is that prohibitionists think that legalizing will suddenly make people drive while high. Um, hi, people already do so and it is illegal. Prohibitionists would then be assuming that people follow marijuana laws. We know better. This proposed surge of drivers driving under the influence is just more fear based campaigning.
“As i did say though for this to be effective and accurate there must be an on the spot test that will tell them the last time a person used marijuana and if that test shows a person did so in under the time of holding or as of 1 to 2 hours of holding kind of like the same way they used the breathilizer by how much is in the persons system for after a day the inpurities in the body decreases until the next time use. ”
Unfortunately there is no current system that does this. I agree with Bruce on this one.
I believe Bruce’s article is saying that the standard field sobriety test can be used as an “instantaneous” test on the spot to determine when you have last smoked…take a look at the abstact of the study he made reference to Jeremey R.
Here’s the problem with merely detecting blood levels of Marijuana/Alcohol:
EVERY SINGLE PERSON REACTS DIFFERENTLY TO DIFFERENT DOSES OF DIFFERENT DRUGS
I think there should be a standardized motor skills/coordination/reaction time test that determines if a person is fit to operate a motor vehicle.
I could take two people, have them smoke two or three bowls/do a few shots, one of them might still be perfectly in control of himself (whether it be due to tolerance or innate ability to handle the substance) and the other could be reduced to the equivalent of a baboon.
Here I some research on cannabis and driving. More should be done after it is legalized.
http://norml.org/pdf_files/NORML_Driving_and_Marijuana.pdf
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4131.html
Correct chris!!!!!!
What you are all missing, except JD #12 and Chris #13 got, and which Bruce makes a point of, is that impairment shouldn’t be based on any substance or metabolite thereof. If you’re impaired, you’re impaired–whether from alcohol, pot, OTC meds, having too little sleep, being blonde with a cellphone behind the wheel (just kidding)–whatever it may be.
Science has shown for a while that drug screens can be inaccurate, and even racist (yes, racist) for some ethnicities and the way their bodies react to substances. And what about some of the studies that have been done showing that people driving under the influece of pot are safer drivers? Now, are they safer than drunk people, safer than straight people; how methodologically sound are these studies? If good evidence shows you’re a better driver under pot, should it be mandated you have to partake before you drive?
My point is that field sobriety tests judging your balance, cognitive functions, etc., by having one walk a straight line, say your ABC’s backwards, etc., have been pretty good in determining straight vs. impaired people. Either you’re driving safely or not, regardless of what you did or didn’t put into your body. If anything needs to be done, maybe a commission to study and enact a standard field sobriety test that is effective and accurate in determining if a person is currently in possession of the minimum faculties to drive safely on the road.
people will do what people will do,legal or not. people drive while stoned now,having a road side piss test will NOT change that.
Hello my /b/rothers and sisters. Its time to legalize Marijuana in california. Here is a link to the ad and if you believe in this cause please repost this message on three other random videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tJNG5FGFq4
Okay this isnt about this topic but about the Legalization Ad video on youtube. Why was it set to private? I have been spreading the link for days and now I cant view it nor can other people and it just hit 46k views.
I would bet that they already have a breath test for marijuana- or something like it- but why make it easy- when they can realy screw with your life.
there is a HUGE flaw in Jeremy’s little plan….. the fact that doing a piss test does not show if you are high at the moment… it shows if you have used marijuana or any other drugs they would check for in tha past week or 2….. so if you smoked last weekend and they stopped you and u were just tired or something… then they could get u for dui nope not good
True #19 as I did say there is a flaw in the idea we all know this i simply mentioned the idea as a way they can do so if they have a test that may do so on the spot the only other way other than that they may tell is the diolated eyes,smell etc…. that we all know of but then again even that is preventable….. example clear eyes for the diolated red eye . what type of test they should have is a siliva test that if marijuana was used detects the THC at once or some thing along those lines. I agree with a lot of people and even admit that their is a Flaw in the idea but hey why do we have scientist?If they can help put a person on the moon they should be able to find a good test that can do so.
Just my two cents. Here in Pennsylvania the allowable amout in your system is like .05.So if I smoked pot two weeks ago and get pulled over today I’m classified as being DUI.Even if I did not smoke for two weeks I’m still DUI.
All of you seem to misunderstand the breath test or even the blood test. They are NOT proof of a crime but instead are CHALLENGABLE PRESUMPTIONS. If the test results are below the state limit, then you are presumed innocent and the state has to prove its allegation of DUI by other means like the field sobriety test and if they are above the presumptive limit then the state has proved its case and it is now up to the defendant to counter that proof, which is very hard to do because the police almost never administer any kind of test without the driver having first failed the field sobriety test. The breath/blood test are used almost exclusively to bolster the evidence of a failed sobriety test because the driver can always claim and maybe even prove that they can’t pass the field sobriety test under any circumstances.
The significance of this posting, and presumably the comments — although I don’t see the connection in most of the comments — is that the “Holy Grail” of DUI enforcement has been declared invalid within the State of California and therefore the argument of the Prohibitionists that we can’t legalize marijuana — and usually they even include medical marijuana — until we have a marijuana test equivalent to the Breathalyzer test for alcohol is crap because the CA Supreme Court has ruled that we don’t even have a valid on site immediate test for alcohol.
Straying form the subject for a moment, even though the US Attorney General has declared that his office will not prosecute marijuana user who are in compliance with their local laws, that does NOT prevent federal agents for harassing and/or arresting medical users. Further, it does NOT address the presumptions under the federal drug testing programs that if they can detect the metabolites for THC in your blood, which can NOT determine when you were last under the influence, you are still unsafe to drive or perform other safety related duties, especially in Transportation jobs. WHAT SENSE DOES IT MAKE AND WHERE IS THE FAIRNESS TO SAY THAT WE WILL NOT PROSECUTE THE MEDICAL USER WHO IS IN COMPLIANCE W3IHT HIS STATE LAWS, BUT WE WILL BAN HIM FROM WORKING IN A WIDE ARRAY OF JOBS JUST BECAUSE HE MAY HAV ESMOKED MARIJUANA UP TO AS LONG AS 3 MONTHS AGO? I relaize that usually the test won’t go back that far but who far back the test will detect usage is dependent primarily on how well your particutlar body metablizes and clear the precense of THC from your body. Because THC, and most other canaboids, are fat soluable, persons with high fat levels will retain more cannaboids and test positive longer than a person with lower fat levels for the same dosage/body weight assuming all other things are equal. Also, the person with impaired liver function will test positive longer.
Don Jones
When suspected of a DUI the officer will first conduct a field sobriety test. If you can’t pass that test you shouldn’t be behind the wheel regardless of the substance. The breathilizer is used as a confirmation of the field sobriety test and you only take it once you fail the field sobriety test.
The fact that you can’t determine current intoxication levels with marijuana by testing your bodily fluids is irrelevent. If I have the cognative ability to: walk a straight line, touch my nose with my finger with my eyes closed, touch the tips of my fingers together in a pattern described to me by the officer, hold my balance on one foot, or to say my alphabet starting from D and stopping at M, (all of this at night with a flashlight and/or spotlight glaring in your face) well you know what…. I don’t think I’m an endangerment on the roads!
Jeremy R
I hate to disgree with you, but under United States Supreme Court ruling Delaware v. Prouse 440 U.S. 648 (1979) Stopping an automobile and detaining its occupants constitute a “seizure” within the meaning of the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments, even though the purpose of the stop is limited and the resulting detention quite brief. The permissibility of a particular law enforcement practice is judged by balancing its intrusion on the individual’s Fourth Amendment interests against its promotion of legitimate We hold only that persons in automobiles on public roadways may not for that reason alone have their travel and privacy interfered with at the unbridled discretion of police officers. The judgment below is affirmed They can’t hold you for 24 hours and then make you take a drug test without good reason, and everyone knows marijuana stays in you system from 3 to 30 days so what is saying you haven’t smoked in 3 days? Do they have a test to tell when you last smoked? Alcohol stays in your system up to 36 hours a day and a half, so two days later you wouldn’t get a DUI, but you could fail a drug test up to 30 days after you smoked your last bowl or joint. Bill
Yes it’s a strange slant on this opinion of someone’s orginal thought to MATCH a round peg into a square hole, it’s obsurd to entertain the thought of testing like anything else. Somebody make up a test and let’s move forward shall we.
On one hand we have a medicinal plant that has been used for 10,00 years by humans without ever killing anybody. On the other hand we have a machine that was invented about 100 years ago and has since become the number one killer of young people.
I hope one day our society will gather enough sense to recognize which of these two things is the real danger.
i.e. If you’re hell bent on banning things in order to save society, banning cannabis is the wrong path to take.
Kudos to DarthNole on #26 – Thank god somebody said that!!!!
Seriously people!!!! Legalizing Pot should not be the only goal you need to achieve here. You should not be willing to sacrifice your freedoms so you can get some marijuana at the local store.
First, the whole idea of the government drug testing people is absolutely ludicrous to begin with. It is NONE of their business what any person in this country puts in their own body. Who owns your body, you or the government? If they can take your pee or your blood at their discretion, they kind of own more of you than you do. The idea that you are your own person really becomes an illusion that entirely too many people are all too willing to believe.
If I am under the influence of any substance – that should not be the sole basis for my imprisonment.
If I am a danger to other people (on the road or walking down the street) then something needs to be done as I am a threat to the public’s safety. That IS an actual reason for imprisonment that hopefully we can all agree on.
Those two items do NOT go hand in hand. Even the government admits that many people can be legally intoxicated at .08% and not be a danger on the road. It is proven that many factors calculate into the loss of reaction and abilities more than just the B.A.C. level/percentage.
Every police car has a camera mounted to the dash. In D.W.I. cases they now follow you and videotape your erratic driving prior to pulling you over and putting you through the series of “field sobriety tests” to determine your sobriety. I think this by itself presented to a jury of your peers should be fairly effective in determining guilt or innocence.
My opinion is that a drug test (breath/blood/urine) is used for one purpose only. It is used for you to incriminate yourself with. This is a direct violation of both the 4th and 5th amendments. The government officials (police and courts) force you to do an act that will cause you to incriminate yourself in a crime by peeing in a little cup or them forcibly holding you down and withdrawing your blood (yes, they do this now).
Wake up!!! Don’t start demanding the market creates better tests to determine if you are high or not!!!!!! Let’s instead have a focus on getting our rights back that the government keeps taking away from us. Pot was legal until the government took away some of our rights.
If we are a danger on the road, let us be charged with that and let the evidence aside from our own self incrimination prove our guilt or innocence.
We should not be trying to trade one right off to get another one back. We should be demanding that they return the constitutionally guaranteed rights they have taken from us to begin with!!!!!!
I don’t use drugs period. I think they are bad for you and I don’t enjoy the way they make me feel. I’m here, and I donate some of my money to MPP because it sickens me to see the police hauling my friends off to jail because they happen to have some plant on them. I will campaign as hard as I can against anyone advocating for more “government controls” over us in exchange for legalizing pot though. That is not the answer, and it scares me that people are suggesting that.
Sorry DarthNole was comment #24…. apologies.
you said it ATX Man!
ban the deed, not the weed.
what i am for is responsible adult consumption.
life, liberty, and the pusuit of happiness.
liberty is the responsible enjoyment of our freedoms.
if you screw up, hurt others, infringe on others’ liberty… you should pay the consequences.
police need to stop sniffing at peoples’ doors, and drive around where kids hang out looking for pedophiles.
entice kids to stay off tobacco, alcohol, etc by paying for their education, vocation, and extra-curricular activites and sports.
send the message to create a solid foundation for their future, before they begin to exercise their right to responsibly manage their freedom to consume.
some folks will choose to responsibly consume a beer, or martini, a bowl or a joint, or a vaporizer (im sure the deluxe models will get cheaper once cannabis is legal, and competition in the market expands).
the police should settle for all the folks that smoke and drive with roaches, pipes, and etc out in plain view. they won’t lose ANY business just because there is no test for cannabis compared to alcohol and hard drugs.
smokers that use visine, deodorize themselves, and gargle before driving after smoking are probably a better driver than most folks on the roads in the morning before their 3rd coffee.
i can have a dozen cases of beer in my back seat, and if they haven’t been opened, i’m okay.
the social costs prohibitionists speak of are ambiguous at best.
i can get my head around the smoking objection, but it is legal to smoke a proven killer, and there is no law against overdosing on booze.
people have NOT been dying, or overburdening our health care sytem from smoking cannabis. if they have been, we would have discovered it in the last 72 years.
that, and i hear that vaoprizing gets the cannabis to about 200 degrees (just shy of combustion), and there is NO smoke.
field sobriety tests, and dash cams should keep drivers, and the police honest.
piss tests are a big part of the prison industrial complex money maker. we don’t need to perfect testing. we need to perfect liberty.
i DO believe that if legal, cannabis use would spike for the first couple years. smokers coming out of the closet will miscue the numbers. i also think that many users of pharmaceutical drugs will wean themselves over to cannabis.
this is a problem for the largest donators to the prohibitionist’s cause… big pharma, the alcohol industry, the prison industrial complex, and the business of being a prohibitionist.
when i hear prohibitionists speak, i can only wonder which special interest group THEY are tied into.
the only valid agrument they have is keeping it away from kids, and we ALL agree on that, so regulate and control it.
don’t trust the gangs and cartels to regulate and control cannabis.
I found The Patriot’s Guide to Legalization that can be found here:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/07/patriots-guide-legalization
I do not know who wrote it but want to share it with every one.
Thanks ATX Man and AngusMcSpuds. You said it great. We need our liberty back. We need to get out of the “Prohibitionist” business and back into the “Pro-Humanist” business. Please Jeremy R. You make many post and seem to care deeply about this cause. One thing you could do is proof read your post and try to reduce the typo’s and badly misspelled words so you are taken more seriously. You are making your posts appear to be the ranting of someone that is just “too high to drive” giving the Prohibitionist ammunition. I think you have good thoughts, just show your not a “doper”! I’m not trying to pick on you as there are many out there that butcher the english language, but they don’t say much in the way of helping the cause like you. Keep up the pressure and thanks for caring. We wouldn’t give Bruce Mirken the floor if he didn’t speak clearly either. Thanks Bruce for fighting for the cause.
I read about the effects of cannabis on drivers, can’t remember where so take this with a grain of salt if you wish.
I remember seeing a copy of what local law enforcement are to look for when finding people driving under the influence, for alcohol it is obvious, as for driving whilst under the influence of cannabis police are to look for “Driver/s that do not break any minor traffic violations, stay on or below the speed limit and stay almost perfectly in the middle of their lane.” I had a good laugh about this back when I read it as it seems they are usually safer than the average driver.
Another claimed that because people were under the influence of cannabis they should pay less for car insurance as they are the safer driver on the road.
I hope to see progress on this in Australia, for some reason we haven’t followed suit as we always do.
Johnny.
Was #33 so right. That is what a cop at a dinner party was saying about the difference between drinking and smoking pot. He was having drinks with his meal by the way. And the guy across from him asked if he drove while drinking and he said he did but he new how to avoid being pulled over. The conversation was changed so I never heard his method and had no urge to speak to him again as he was a real jerk. It just made me mad that he was able to get away with drinking and driving but enjoyed busting potheads as he put it.
sorry for veering off topic in past post…
PISSED AT TESTING?
Marijuana urine tests only indicate that the subject has been exposed to cannabis or hemp seed oil/product which stays in the system for up to 30 days.
The tests don’t measure the exposure in any degrees,scales, or percentages.
Positive or Negative.
The tests cannot determine if you smoked or ate it in the lobby of the lab before the test, or at a concert 27 days ago.
URINE TESTING IS A CASH COW!
Carlton Turner, former Reagan Drug Czar, resigned in 1986 and went into the drug testing business. Not too long after that, urine tesing was required for federal business, and then it swept into the private sectors.
Millions of little cups. Billions of dollars.
LEAVE THE TESTING TO SCIENTISTS
Use the police dash cams, and field sobriety tests to determine impairment.
*** lol, johnny, good post!
I drive extremely conservatively and obey all speed limits, and road signs.
I guess I should drink a little booze so I can drive a little less like a marijuana criminal and avoid police stops, and an invasion of my urinary tract.
To say no to cannabis, is to say no to life.
To say no to industrialized HEMP is corrupt.
well said AngusMcSpuds { 07.11.09 at 10:40 am !
that is the first i heard of the Reagan drug czar going into the drug testing business, no doubt he has made millions pursuing pot smokers. makes me want to piss all over that guys face.
and all over ronald reagan’s grave, actually i would take a big dump on his grave. that idiot would have actually benefitted from cannabis, maybe he wouldn’t have been braindead his last 4 years in office.
I love how prohibitionists argue as if no one smokes pot yet, and won’t smoke pot until it’s legal. You think that among the millions of marijuana users out there, none of them are driving high already? It’s a completely separate issue from legalization.
It’s called a Field Sobriety Test, and they have worked for years.
Parden my french , but fuck em. Its a rubbish statement from a group of never ending liars. MPP keep putting the pressure on these assholes and expose them for being the bullshit artist all of us in the cannibus world know them to be.
Aaron Houston on Today Show 07/09/2009 did a good job how ever our fight is far from over and all the rest of us need to keep the pressure on with MPP and others. We will and can make a difference in short lets do all we can as patriots and continue the hard fight…… Remember that for HR 2943 to get support we all must help by contacting our reps who are on both House Judiciary and the House Energy and Commerce or listed bellow is the reps for both in which you would know what congressman is for what state who is on either one and urge them to support HR 2943 . As i said earlier I have listed both of these with the reps involved for others as well as myself can contact and urge them to help support HR 2943 this is for the ones who did not become cosponsors the ones that did lets send them an email thanking them for their support.
Here is the list:
House Judiciary
Rep. John Conyers [D-MI14]
Rep. Lamar Smith [R-TX21]
Rep. Tammy Baldwin [D-WI2]
Rep. Howard Berman [D-CA28]
Rep. Frederick Boucher [D-VA9]
Rep. Jason Chaffetz [R-UT3]
Rep. Howard Coble [R-NC6]
Rep. Steve Cohen [D-TN9]
Rep. William Delahunt [D-MA10]
Rep. James Forbes [R-VA4]
Rep. Trent Franks [R-AZ2]
Rep. Elton Gallegly [R-CA24]
Rep. Louis Gohmert [R-TX1]
Rep. Charles Gonzalez [D-TX20]
Rep. Robert Goodlatte [R-VA6]
Rep. Luis Gutiérrez [D-IL4]
Rep. Gregg Harper [R-MS3]
Rep. Darrell Issa [R-CA49]
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee [D-TX18]
Rep. Henry Johnson [D-GA4]
Rep. Jim Jordan [R-OH4]
Rep. Steve King [R-IA5]
Rep. Zoe Lofgren [D-CA16]
Rep. Daniel Lungren [R-CA3]
Rep. Daniel Maffei [D-NY25]
Rep. Jerrold Nadler [D-NY8]
Rep. Ted Poe [R-TX2]
Rep. Thomas Rooney [R-FL16]
Rep. Linda Sánchez [D-CA39]
Rep. Adam Schiff [D-CA29]
Rep. Robert Scott [D-VA3]
Rep. James Sensenbrenner [R-WI5]
Rep. Brad Sherman [D-CA27]
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D-FL20]
Rep. Maxine Waters [D-CA35]
Rep. Melvin Watt [D-NC12]
Rep. Anthony Weiner [D-NY9]
Rep. Robert Wexler [D-FL19]
Res.Com. Pedro Pierluisi [D-PR]
House Energy and Commerce
Rep. Henry Waxman [D-CA30]
Rep. Joe Barton [R-TX6]
Del. Donna Christensen [D-VI]
Rep. Tammy Baldwin [D-WI2]
Rep. John Barrow [D-GA12]
Rep. Marsha Blackburn [R-TN7]
Rep. Roy Blunt [R-MO7]
Rep. Mary Bono Mack [R-CA45]
Rep. Frederick Boucher [D-VA9]
Rep. Bruce Braley [D-IA1]
Rep. Michael Burgess [R-TX26]
Rep. George Butterfield [D-NC1]
Rep. Stephen Buyer [R-IN4]
Rep. Lois Capps [D-CA23]
Rep. Kathy Castor [D-FL11]
Rep. Nathan Deal [R-GA9]
Rep. Diana DeGette [D-CO1]
Rep. John Dingell [D-MI15]
Rep. Michael Doyle [D-PA14]
Rep. Eliot Engel [D-NY17]
Rep. Anna Eshoo [D-CA14]
Rep. John Gingrey [R-GA11]
Rep. Charles Gonzalez [D-TX20]
Rep. Barton Gordon [D-TN6]
Rep. Raymond Green [D-TX29]
Rep. Ralph Hall [R-TX4]
Rep. Jane Harman [D-CA36]
Rep. Baron Hill [D-IN9]
Rep. Jay Inslee [D-WA1]
Rep. Edward Markey [D-MA7]
Rep. Jim Matheson [D-UT2]
Rep. Doris Matsui [D-CA5]
Rep. Jerry McNerney [D-CA11]
Rep. Charles Melancon [D-LA3]
Rep. Christopher Murphy [D-CT5]
Rep. Tim Murphy [R-PA18]
Rep. Sue Myrick [R-NC9]
Rep. Frank Pallone [D-NJ6]
Rep. Joseph Pitts [R-PA16]
Rep. George Radanovich [R-CA19]
Rep. Michael Rogers [R-MI8]
Rep. Mike Ross [D-AR4]
Rep. Bobby Rush [D-IL1]
Rep. John Sarbanes [D-MD3]
Rep. Steve Scalise [R-LA1]
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D-IL9]
Rep. John Shadegg [R-AZ3]
Rep. John Shimkus [R-IL19]
Rep. Zachary Space [D-OH18]
Rep. Clifford Stearns [R-FL6]
Rep. Bart Stupak [D-MI1]
Rep. John Sullivan [R-OK1]
Rep. Betty Sutton [D-OH13]
Rep. Lee Terry [R-NE2]
Rep. Frederick Upton [R-MI6]
Rep. Greg Walden [R-OR2]
Rep. Anthony Weiner [D-NY9]
Rep. Peter Welch [D-VT]
Rep. Edward Whitfield [R-KY1]
Keep on fighting fellow patriots ….. And have a great weekend.
South Carolina Sheriffs Want to Legalize Marijuana
July 7, 2009 – 12:07 pm By Andrew – Hunter College
Dillon – State Law Enforcement Division (SLED) agents, flanked by police chiefs from the state’s largest cities joined 16 elected sheriffs today at South of the Border to announce their support for legalizing and taxing marijuana.
money-pot
“Weed is good. Weed is right. Weed works,” said Dorchester County Sheriff B.D. Squire, spokesman for the group.
The event marks a turnaround for the state’s law enforcement officers who have counted on weed-related fines and confiscated drug money to fund their militaristic uniforms and ‘SWAT’ like attitude towards the state’s marijuana users and sellers. The officials would like to see South Carolina enact legislation to legalize and tax weed and corner the southeastern market in a way similar to the way Georgia’s lottery siphoned valuable revenue from the state’s coffers and in a way similar that our lowest-in-the-nation cigarette tax brings customers all the way from the northeast.
Democratic and Republican leaders from the general assembly are intrigued by the idea.
“This is perhaps one of the no-brainers in terms of bringing us back to fiscal health,” said Hugh Leatherman, the senate finance chairman.
“There was a half-million dollar bust a couple weeks ago in Berkely County,” said state Agriculture Secretary Hugh Weathers, “if that pot was taxed at anything near the rate of tobacco… well that would be about $500 million straight into the state coffers. Can you imagine what kind of income we’d pull in if it was planted on proper farms and not just in little patches in the woods? We wouldn’t be having a ’stimulus’ debate because we wouldn’t need the money.”
“The effects of this would be enormous,” said University of South Carolina Economics Professor Lester Nestman. “Obviously tax revenue would be huge, but we’d likely also see a surge in tourism all over the state, you’d have all manner of stores springing up at every border crossing, and I can’t even imagine how popular farmers’ markets would become. On a related note, just the mention of this possibility has caused an overnight jump of 38% in undergraduate applications to the university.”
Reactions in the business community were mixed. Cigarette executives were outwardly dismissive of the idea, but a source at RJ Reynolds speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that the company was actively looking for land to build a Marijuana packaging facility outside of Latta, near the North Carolina border.
Gregg Propps, a Charleston-area distributor for Little Debbies brand snacks was less reserved in his response.
“Are you kidding me? Holy crap, this is awesome. This is going to put my kids through college… but maybe I’ll send them to school in another state.”
The original story may be found here:
http://thediscust.com/?p=573
Week of March 30, 2009
by John Lovell, CPOA Government Relations Manager
Well, sometimes the Good Guys win one. This last week was one of those times. Readers of WHAT’S HAPPENING will remember that law enforcement launched its major push against AB 390, Assembly Member Ammanio’s marijuana legalization bill. CPOA members contacted each member of the Assembly Public Safety Committee and urged members to reject this terrible proposal – a proposal that, among other things, would have lowered the penalties for selling marijuana to children from a felony to a mere infraction.
Your calls made a huge impact. What we were told is that the word was passed to Assembly Member Ammanio that his bill would not get out of committee. In response, he pulled the bill from the calendar and – now here’s the really good part – indicated that the bill will not be heard at all this year!
What this means is that AB 390 is now what’s called a “two-year bill”. This means that the earliest this bill can now be heard will be next January. AND if the bill does not get out of Assembly Public Safety Committee by the third week of January 2010, the bill is then totally and officially dead.
Each CPOA member who telephoned Assembly Public Safety Committee members played a role in a major law enforcement victory. My thanks to each one of you!
peace offers my @ss. they sound scared like their cash cow is being sold. these people piss me off.
When I saw the news I had to post it for every one I even sent this to CNN and CNBC. Matter of fact I know exactly where they are talking about being I lived down in SC and was in that county how weird is that? But hey if even they are for the cause then we made even more progress being if they see that as quoted here “There was a half-million dollar bust a couple weeks ago in Berkely County,” said state Agriculture Secretary Hugh Weathers, “if that pot was taxed at anything near the rate of tobacco… well that would be about $500 million straight into the state coffers. Can you imagine what kind of income we’d pull in if it was planted on proper farms and not just in little patches in the woods? We wouldn’t be having a ’stimulus’ debate because we wouldn’t need the money.” Then now other states might get the point as well. But till the cause has won we must still keep on going our best for the cause…. At this rate we should see results way befor 2012 but that is only if we keep doing what we are doing and do not even give it a break . In short we now have SC working with us and if the govenor of SC does something to help the cause I and I am pretty much sure all of us would most likely applaud them for their standing up for the cause ….
Everyone was talking about how some sort of instantaneous test would solve this whole thing, well I have heard of one. I have heard of this test that is being tried out in France where a cop makes you lick this special stick or tab, and he then places it in a tube with this chemical, and it shows based on some sort of coloring system if the person has ingested or smoked any sort of drug in the past 24 hours. It is just in the testing, but if this was ever to break through, you would be able to catch those under the influence of marijuana and the argument would be dead.
what needs to happen is the govt needs to approve research and fund it more and alos promote it. one of prohibitionists main points is “theres not enough research to prove this” well no shit you wont allow reseach. anyway after some time studies can be published for whoever to see and hopefully the fda wises up and legalizes it. and hopefully states regulate it. by the way im only 16 and have been smoking for 2 years and im not a stupid stoner kid of which the typical stereotype is. people just need to be smart about use and the people who seriusly oppose this need to actually do research and try some themselves. its just like food. you cant really say i will never like somthing if you have never considered trying it
more on Turner…
this is a guy, who before he was appointed drug czar in 1981, was in charge of the Univ Miss Marijuana farm from 1971 to 1980.
By state charter this growing program was supposed to research cannabis and it’s over 400 properties , THEN synthesize the substances to attain their FULL POTENTIAL FOR PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES.
Huh? you say tax monies to help big pharma?? yup, and there’s more…
Let’s look at a quick time line synopsis to this point.
Remember 1971, when Nixon started the whole mess? He ignored the science, and shunned the medical aspects of HIS own investigators.
Flash-forward to the Reagan years.
Turner is made drug czar by Reagan at the insistence of Geo HW Bush.
This same Geo. HW Bush that after leaving as head of CIA, was made director of Eli Lilly by Dan Quayle’s Father, whose family had controlling interest in LILLY.
We rarley hear of spelling bee king Quayle’s involvement in Iran-Contra… but he was in there.
ANYwayz… the Bush family was heavily invested in Lilly, Abbott, Bristol, and Pfizer.
Finally it took the US Supreme Court to ban then VP Bush from lobbying on behalf of the drug companies in ‘82.
So… back to Turner…
Turner, not content with the US spraying PARAQUAT on mexican and south american crops of cannabis, decided to spray PARAQUAT poison in Georgia, Tennessee, and Kentucky in 1983.
Turner stated that the spraying would teach a lesson to any KID that died from smoking paraquat-poisoned pot!
This STILL kept his job for a few more years until in December 1986, when he was forced to retire after stating that cannabis smoking caused homosexuality and therefore cause AIDS, and calling for the death penalty for people that sold or transfered marijuana (pass a joint?).
But… along the testing line of thought…
Turner did a trial run, of sorts, on testing back in 1978, during the Mexican paraquat scare. Turner thought there could be money to made by marketing a PARAQUAT DETECTION TEST KIT! he even tried to advertise in High Times Magazine! all evidence, to that point, showed these tests were bogus, and Turner’s turned out no different… a scam.
But 1981 came around quickly, and he was made drug czar.
I just thought I would give folks more incentive to piss on graves, instead of into cups.
Jeremy, you realize that website is a satire website, right?
the u.s.a. has a 6 acre marijuana farm in oxford mississippi they have 3 or 4 americans that get it for medication and recieve about 8 to 11 ounce’s every month.and the president of the u.s. should reverse george bush orders to close all applications to sick and dying.and we the people are the one’s that suffer,it would be the first step for sick and dying if obama has the power to help you and me.personally after i seen obama laugh at us i believe he does not have the power to reopen the pot farm located in oxford mississippi,please tell family& friends.
#48 thats the thing I have seen the story on other sites as well as have heard about it 1st hand from a relative in SC who told me she herd the same thing in the paper about the SC article that is sought to be found on a satire website as well. I did do some asking of a few people I went to school with one being a cop who told me that they were talking about the issue and agree with other cops as well that mj should be legal and taxed. When I was down their Berkley County has been known to be one of the strictest counties in SC but any ways back to the topic at hand yes I do know what you are talking about how ever it is as far as what I have found out through friends in SC that it is a lagit story. Now if by chance I was lied to from those who I verified the story from is another story but why would all of those I talked to have to gain for lieing about that when more than one is a cop and one of those cops is some one who I personally know and went to school with who deals only in facts and has never been known to lie. I do know what you mean though and is weird that it is on that type of site but all i know is that to the best of my knowledge is a true story never the less.
Fellow patriots I have just finished a web site that is to help our cause . Feel free to use the web page to help the cause for those who would like to. Here is the url to the site:
http://jpruditis.googlepages.com/reform
Jeremy R.
You know http://www.thediscust.com is a fake news website right?
President Obama will do nothing. The reason Bush senior made it illegal is because he and his group are responsible for the AIDS epidemic in the first place. He represents a group that wants only 500 million people to alive on earth. He closed down the investigative new drug program because they found out cannabis really does heal and can cure many diseases that people die from. Population control is what it’s about and they are winning.
#52 Yes I know it is fake news site how ever there was some real life trueth in that story that is what I was getting to. As I did mention in #50 . How ever now the site I did for us all to use is nothing by facts in it and should help our cause for any one who would like to use the page as a tool for the cause aka to refer people to to help not only educate them but to let them know where to go if they want to help our cause as well. Any one who is for the cause may feel free to use that site / url if they would like to help the cause. I made it for every one to use and is kind of my way of helping out for our cause . I make sites and have been doing network marketing for a while matter of fact for over 11 years and with that knowledge figured to do the project for us all for nothing it is for a good cause and may prove to be a very use full tool for us. I hope every one can use it and shall keep on doing all I can on this end to help the cause. For the sites url see post #51.
Your name Jermy R. Isnt by chance Jermy Radford?
People should not drive on public roads if there are one or more mechanical problems with their vehicles, particularly brakes, steering/suspension and tires. Nor should they be driving if they are not paying attention to their driving, even for a fraction of a second, by lighting a cigarette, changing the radio dial, making a cell phome call, applying make-up, eating, etc. People should not drive if they are not in the right frame of mind, such as being emotionally upset or preoccupied with matters other than driving. People should not drive when under the influence of mind-altering drugs such as coffee, or any other toxic substances. People should not drive if they are not physically able, such as being too weak, old, young, middle-aged, poor euesight not wearing glasses, sweat on hands making the steering wheel slick, etc., etc., etc. If everyone who should not be driving didn’t, there would be little traffic or autonimous mobility. All other things being equal, I would rather share the road with someone high on cannabis than drunk on alcohol. Damn, just missed my exit, got to go.
I drive high all the time and it doesn’t effect me negatively at all. Marijuana hardly impairs one ability to drive, and if people werent comfortable driving high, then they would be too paranoid or scared to do it. Unlike when your drunk and your confidence level is through the roof and you actually think you can drive!
After the last few months I have been keeping up with the war on drugs and it seems to me that there is a basic fix stop focusing on arresting every tom dick and harry who go out to pick up a few grams of this stuff and go after the dudes bringing in pounds of it, I am a heavy believer in Legalization for one major reason, We are US citizens we have the right to seek out our own happiness without worry about government or other people harassing us, by all means if someone decides to use a substance to alter their state of being and commit a crime against another person or someone else’s property put em in jail, rehab, purgatory whatever floats your boat, not for using the substance but for being an idiot and hurting someone or destroying something, it won’t work I have heard if you go and drink yourself stupid you wont go to jail until you try to drive or start acting like an idiot? If that works then why cant it work for any substance. This way all the money stays in the US, Mexico will then have to find another border to destroy, and all trafficking into the US will come to an end if we make the product and offer it for sale to our citizens. Once it is on the open regulated market prices will drop, everyone and their mothers will be trying to make a profit on it and only way to make profit is to sell the stuff at better prices than the guy down the street.
We are loosing our families in this war and I would rather see a family member in rehab than loose the ability to get scholarships, loose all hope of getting any licenced job, ( yeh billy smoked some dope he cant cut hair ) Loose housing benefits and theoretically loose their lives at the range of 16 – 20 because of an arrest record, not to mention the law and military forces we loose when they actually find a real dealer or trafficker and aren’t breaking into an 72 yr old woman’s home giving her a heart attack and having her death on their hands.
Common Sense is the number one thing needed in this country, we are spending trillions not only in our nation but in others as well fighting the same war and the only difference that it has honestly made is instead of the dealers selling the weak stuff now they have a whole new grade of stuff to sell. Come on America please just open your eyes for an hour enough to read the basic facts.
Marijuana Prohibition, Helping Children obtain pot since 1937
What is the correct Stutus of AB 390 in California?
I pulled this from Ammiano’s web site:
COMPLETE BILL HISTORY
BILL NUMBER : A.B. No. 390
AUTHOR : Ammiano
TOPIC : Marijuana Control, Regulation, and Education Act.
TYPE OF BILL :
Active
Non-Urgency
Non-Appropriations
Majority Vote Required
State-Mandated Local Program
Fiscal
Non-Tax Levy
BILL HISTORY
2009
Mar. 31 In committee: Set, first hearing. Hearing canceled at the request of author.
Mar. 9 Referred to Coms. on PUB. S. and HEALTH.
Feb. 24 From printer. May be heard in committee March 26.
Feb. 23 Read first time. To print.
“Hearing Cancelled at the request of the author”???? what is going on?
#55 LOL No it is not
UPDATE:
HR 2835 – Medical Marijuana Patient Protection Act
Another Co-Sponser has been added… #21!
Rep Filner, Bob [CA-51] – 7/8/2009
Keep those letters going!!
how are they keeping those crazy Medi Marijuana Patients off the roads in the legal states???? Have any of these states seen an increase in traffic accidents due to the high people. Probably not because people are allready smoking and not killing people. What a rediculous fear based arguement.
#60 Darthnole…
I believe that it has been pushed back to 2010 from the request of the authors.
I love how so many of the prohibitionist arguements seem to assume that nobody smokes now and it would be suddenly this new thing that society would be exposed to and it without a doubt will distroy the world. when just about every shred of evidence available proves them wrong they insist on their myths. When will they realize that they are in fact the problem.
so what about the migration of new residents to cali if it becomes legal wont this fix the real estate markets and bring in even more tax $ to the state?
I have been keeping up with the HR2943 and their is only 8 cosponcors at this time . As soon as I hear or see some thing new on HR 2943 I shall inform every one being As I said I am following this on a daily basses and do urge every one to do their best for that is the least we may do. I did posts matter of fact post #41 informs every one of the members that we must try to get to support HR2943 as for those on the list who did so all ready I say lets thank them for their efforts and support. I not only am following this for us all on the MPP form but also do so for NORMLs form. I also did work on a site that can be help full to the cause that any one may use that may be found here:
http://jpruditis.googlepages.com/reform
I shall as mentioned in this post will keep tracking the HR2943 and will keep every one up to date as it progresses.
Don’t they already have officers who are specially trained to detect if someone is under the influence of a substance?? I believe they are called D.R.E (Drug Recognition Expert) I was arrested for a DUI for marijuana a few years ago. There was no field sobriety test done on me they just cuffed me and put me in the back of the car…After 2 years in court it was dismissed based on the fact that there was no D.R.E on scene at the time of the arrest. Basically deeming that the piss test i took was invalid since i coulda smoked 2 weeks before the arrest.
Let’s pray they don’t strip away our rights and make taking our blood in order to check alcohol levels or anything else for that matter.
nature is perfect. modern nurture is an advantage slanted insane machination. alcohol & tabacco are hard drugs, just say “no thanks” to hard drugs…go smoke your weed in peace.
Good to see that you have an open discussion about this issue. I live in Norway, and a public debate about MJ is not very welcome here. I have seen in the news here, that the police were supposed to introduce a spit test for marijuana this year, but it has been prosponed, and are now supposed to come out next year. These tests are supposed to tell if you have smoked/used MJ within the last 6-8 hours or so.. well, after all these years of war on drugs, its about time you reconsider, after all “everybody” knows that the devils smoke ain’t as bad as they have said for 70 years. good luck
The only problem is with weed you are ok to drive after about an hour after smoking; so their is no real test for DUI invoulving Marijuana. It’s not a real problem too driving as alcohol is.
DarthNole (#60): In order to have time to educate his colleagues and build support, Assemblyman Ammiano decided to make AB 390 a 2-year bill and hold off holding hearings till next winter. Sadly, politicians are several steps behind the public in their willingness to consider fundamental marijuana law reforms, so the delay was needed in order to have a fighting chance of passage. If you’re a California voter, please write your legislators and tell them you support AB 390 and taxing/regulating marijuana! http://www.mpp.org/states/california/
Jeremy, Marijuana stays in your urine for weeks, or months at a time.. Their is no test that shows when you smoked, so your idea wouldn’t work…
Your idea would arrest the large majority of pot smokers, because it’s still going to give you a positive for weeks at a time.. You would never be able to drive.
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